New Testament Baptism: In Water or the Spirit?
January 22, 2002
by W J
Some allege that the baptism commissioned by Christ was not a rite in water. Rather, they contend, it is an immersion in the Holy Spirit. What are the facts regarding this matter?
“How would you respond to those who make the claim that passages such as Galatains 3:27; Romans 6:3,4; Colossians 2:12; 1 Corinthians 12:13, and 1 Peter 3:21—refer to a ‘Spirit’ baptism, rather than to ‘water’ baptism?”
Some years ago I had a series of public debates with a gentleman who contended that there is no divinely-authorized “water” baptism today. The water baptism specifically mentioned in the book of Acts (e.g., 8:36; 10:47), he opined, was merely a “Jewish purification” ritual. He claimed that this ceremonial act was terminated with the close of the book of Acts, and that the only baptism in vogue today is a “Spirit baptism.”
This dogma is quite erroneous, and it can be refuted effectively.
In response I must first point out that it is generally agreed that whatever the “baptism” is—in those passages that associate the rite with salvation—it is the same type of “baptism” in all the verses. In other words, the “baptism” of Matthew 28:19 is of the same kind as that in Acts 2:38; 22:16; Romans 6:3-4; 1 Corinthians 12:13; Galatians 3:27; Colossians 2:12; 1 Peter 3:21; etc. My debate opponent, mentioned above, happily conceded this point.
In view of this, consider the following:
The baptism mentioned in Matthew 28:19 had human administrators. Christ commissioned the apostles to go and make disciples, baptizing them into the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Inasmuch as an apostle could not baptize “in the Spirit” (only Christ could do that—Mt. 3:11), one is forced to conclude that the baptism of Matthew 28:19 is water baptism, not Spirit baptism.
I am unaware of any reputable Bible scholar who contends otherwise. If, then, the other passages that mention baptism (see above) are of the same import, it follows that they likewise refer to water baptism, not Spirit baptism.
Both Romans 6:3-4 and Colossians 2:12 make it clear that the baptism of these passages involves both an immersion in “something,” and a “being raised” from the same substance. This makes perfectly good sense if water baptism is in view.
On the other hand, if the “Spirit” is the element of the baptism, this would suggest that one is buried in the Spirit, and subsequently “raised from” the Spirit. This would imply further that the new convert would not have the Spirit, and therefore, would not belong to the Lord (Rom. 8:9; Gal. 4:6). This conclusion obviously is wrong—thus demonstrating that the element of the baptism in Romans 6:3-4 and Colossians 2:12 is not the Holy Spirit. By default, it must be water baptism.
Water is specifically associated with baptism in 1 Peter 3:21. If the allusion here, then, is to water baptism, and yet 1 Peter 3:21 refers to the same sort of baptism as the other passages cited, then clearly they speak of water baptism as well.
The passage that would come closest to teaching a “Spirit” baptism would be 1 Corinthians 12:13, but, the fact is, a careful analysis of related passages reveals that not even this text teaches a baptism in the Spirit.
Note the following logic: The baptism of 1 Corinthians 12:13 puts one into the one “body,” which is the same as the “church” (Eph. 1:22-23; Col. 1:18,24). But the church is identified with the kingdom of Christ (Mt. 16:18-19). Thus, the baptism of the text under consideration introduces one into the Lord’s kingdom.
However, a related passage demonstrates that it is through the birth of “water” that one enters Christ’s kingdom (Jn. 3:3-5). One is forced to conclude, therefore, that the baptism of 1 Corinthians 12:13 is water baptism. In this connection, one should also carefully study Ephesians 5:26, and note the reference to the “washing of water.”
Finally, there is a principle of interpretation that is paramount in sound Bible exegesis. Frequently it is the case that Bible words will form a pattern. That is, a consideration of several passages containing a term will reveal that the word has a commonly understood significance. Such being the case, that normal meaning is to be attached to the term unless an exceptional context suggests that it has taken on a special significance (i.e., a figurative sense).
The term “baptize,” and its cognate “baptism,” occur together about 100 times in the New Testament. A consideration of these passages will reveal that the word may, on occasion, take on a figurative application (cf. Mt. 3:11; Lk. 12:50; Acts 1:5). Unless, though, there is clear contextual evidence that a symbolic sense has been employed, the conclusion must be that the common usage (an immersion in water) is in view.
In view of this principle, there is no reason to conclude the baptism mentioned in Matthew 28:19; Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38, 22:16; Romans 6:3-4; 1 Corinthians 12:13; Galatians 3:27; Colossians 2:12, and 1 Peter 3:21 is anything other than water baptism—an act of obedience, predicated upon faith and repentance, which secures forgiveness of sins and brings one into union with Jesus Christ.
To all of this we add this point. The clear cases of “water” baptism in the book of Acts (chapters 8 and 10) very obviously were not examples of Jewish ritualism. The indisputable fact is that the Mosaic law had been abolished by the cross (Eph. 2:15; Col. 2:14), and no Jewish rite was henceforth tolerated in connection with the salvation process (cf. Acts 15:1; Gal. 5:2-4) WJ.
span: In reading your article I would have to ask, What is our prime example in the act of Salvation, is it Peter's confession or his command of water baptism, is it Paul's confession or his command of water baptism or is it that of the only true Saviour Jesus Christ to whom we turn to understand the process of salvation? If one were to quote that of Matthew which I note that you indeed quoted:
Matthew 28:19-20 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
The command as far as I can understand it is not to baptize one into the Holy Spirit but to baptize one into the Name of the LORD Jesus Christ to which there is no other name under heaven to which we may be saved other than the name of Jesus Christ and it is He whom baptizes (if you will) us into and the Holy Spirit into us. If Christ is the prime example which I believe He is and not Peter or Paul or any other church affliation. I also take note (not as an attack but merely quoting that which I have heard other Church of Christ members state) that you should use the whole word of God in your discussions and not just certain individual passages which is how the cults attract those whom are to be led astray. Is it more important to have truth or to hold on to that which we preceive is truth (as to protect one's belief) instead of the study of the whole word of God to determine what is truth, after all, was this not the cry of Christ's day, Who may know the truth? Now if we can dialogue I would indeed like that - can we use all the scripture to discover the truth and if we do should we change our point of view according as we do receive the truth?
Ezekiel 36:20-27 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land. But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went. Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Here God is specific as to where the Holy Spirit should be assigned or to dwell - inside the person - not just the apostles but the whole house of Israel and note it is not conditional as to whether they themselves will seek to do good, repent from their wickedness, nor to obey the words of God, but it is God choosing to cleanse them as he sprinkles clean water upon them and changes their hearts and causes them to do his judgements by a changed heart and life, not for them does he do this but for his holy name's sake. The Bible is rather clear on the matter of baptisim which is denoted in John.
John 4:1-2 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,) Now you would think that if Christ is not a respector of persons and if he wants and desires that all should come to the knowledge of the truth He would have at least one place to where He actually baptized at least one individual by immersion in water (which I am not against just not for salvation purposes). I have also noticed that in places in the scripture where the Church of Christ cannot explain the passage(s) they begin to state it is "symbolic" how nice it must be to determine what God did or did not mean simply by stating it's "symbolic" and only "our" church or group can understand it's meaning. The only place I have found where Christ baptizes any one is in the passage in John.
John 20:20-23 And when he had so said, he showed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord. Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
Now it is true we cannot forgive sins but we may pray for those whom do wish us to do so as they would turn to Christ, but we do have these verses which inform us of the operation of the Holy Spirit which when the Bible is speaking of the Holy Spirit the "s" is captialized.
Romans 8:13-17 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. If in this place He is talking only of the apostles of Christ, which is asserted by the CofC then we have not hope.Romans 8:23-28 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it. Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? Do these verses attain to the church or only to the apostles,is the Holy Spirit mentioned here really the third person of the GodHead or do we now make Him symbolic and call this the Bible when the Spirit is mentioned?
Sincerely in Love and Admonition of Jesus Christ,
span
Matthew 28:19-20 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
The command as far as I can understand it is not to baptize one into the Holy Spirit but to baptize one into the Name of the LORD Jesus Christ to which there is no other name under heaven to which we may be saved other than the name of Jesus Christ and it is He whom baptizes (if you will) us into and the Holy Spirit into us. If Christ is the prime example which I believe He is and not Peter or Paul or any other church affliation. I also take note (not as an attack but merely quoting that which I have heard other Church of Christ members state) that you should use the whole word of God in your discussions and not just certain individual passages which is how the cults attract those whom are to be led astray. Is it more important to have truth or to hold on to that which we preceive is truth (as to protect one's belief) instead of the study of the whole word of God to determine what is truth, after all, was this not the cry of Christ's day, Who may know the truth? Now if we can dialogue I would indeed like that - can we use all the scripture to discover the truth and if we do should we change our point of view according as we do receive the truth?
Ezekiel 36:20-27 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land. But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went. Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Here God is specific as to where the Holy Spirit should be assigned or to dwell - inside the person - not just the apostles but the whole house of Israel and note it is not conditional as to whether they themselves will seek to do good, repent from their wickedness, nor to obey the words of God, but it is God choosing to cleanse them as he sprinkles clean water upon them and changes their hearts and causes them to do his judgements by a changed heart and life, not for them does he do this but for his holy name's sake. The Bible is rather clear on the matter of baptisim which is denoted in John.
John 4:1-2 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,) Now you would think that if Christ is not a respector of persons and if he wants and desires that all should come to the knowledge of the truth He would have at least one place to where He actually baptized at least one individual by immersion in water (which I am not against just not for salvation purposes). I have also noticed that in places in the scripture where the Church of Christ cannot explain the passage(s) they begin to state it is "symbolic" how nice it must be to determine what God did or did not mean simply by stating it's "symbolic" and only "our" church or group can understand it's meaning. The only place I have found where Christ baptizes any one is in the passage in John.
John 20:20-23 And when he had so said, he showed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord. Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
Now it is true we cannot forgive sins but we may pray for those whom do wish us to do so as they would turn to Christ, but we do have these verses which inform us of the operation of the Holy Spirit which when the Bible is speaking of the Holy Spirit the "s" is captialized.
Romans 8:13-17 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. If in this place He is talking only of the apostles of Christ, which is asserted by the CofC then we have not hope.Romans 8:23-28 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it. Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? Do these verses attain to the church or only to the apostles,is the Holy Spirit mentioned here really the third person of the GodHead or do we now make Him symbolic and call this the Bible when the Spirit is mentioned?
Sincerely in Love and Admonition of Jesus Christ,
span
1 comment:
Raby replies to an attempted response to article on baptism by W. J.
comment by
da shep: is identified by number and “s”
Raby: is identified by RE(1s) Raby:
(1s) The command as far as I can understand it
is not to baptize one into the Holy Spirit
but to baptize one into the Name of the LORD Jesus Christ to which there is no other name under heaven to which we may be saved other than the name of Jesus Christ
and it is He whom baptizes (if you will) us into and the Holy Spirit into us.
RE(1s) Raby: I commend your efforts to foster discussion and attempt to support your position. However you clearly do not understand what Jesus said. The command given in Matt 28 is one of several that were given to the apostles by Jesus at the close of his earthly visit. He told them to make disciples and teach those disciples all of what he commanded them while he was with them. Disciples are "made" according to Jesus is by baptizing them "in the name of..." and by teaching them to observe commands. The command is directly to the apostles and indirectly to us through the teaching of the apostles. We obey Jesus in this regard by obeying what the apostles taught those who were converted through the preaching of the gospel. See also Mark 16:5-20; Luke 24:44-47; John 20:30-31; Acts 1:1-8.
The question under discussion is what must we do to obey Jesus? Did Jesus command baptism? Yes, as a process of making disciple. Since we know that Jesus is the only one who can baptize with the Spirit, then baptism here must refer to immersion in water. Further study of all the text and teaching on this subject will reveal other important details. Here in Matthew 28 we find a definite action which the apostles and those disciples that result from their teaching will obey if they obey Jesus.
A brief comment here about the phrase "in the name..." This is not a verbal formula for correct baptism but rather indicates the authority by which one immerses a disciple. It is not only in the name of the Son but also by the authority of the Father and Holy Spirit. Whatever we do in obedience to Christ is also in obedience to the Father and Spirit as Jesus was granted all authority in heaven and earth Mt 28:18. We should only do that which we do in the name of Jesus Christ meaning by His authority and not follow mere human doctrine. Col. 3:17.
We know that we are to observe baptism in water because of the total revelation of the teaching and practice of the apostles. On the first occasion of gospel preaching Peter commanded those who were convicted by crucifying the Lord were told to repent and be baptized. They believe the preaching and sought a remedy for their guilt. They wanted forgiveness and Peter offered remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit to them in the name of Jesus Christ. (Acts 2:37-38). Three thousand souls became disciples of Jesus Christ that day receiving hope and forgiveness. This one account is sufficient to address the question. Is baptism water or spirit? We know it is water as men cannot baptize in spirit and they obeyed Jesus through the preaching of Peter.
You have not only misunderstood, but you have refused the plain teaching of Jesus. You do not believe Jesus when you say, "...If Christ is the prime example which I believe He is and not Peter or Paul or any other church affliation." Your refusal is not a misunderstanding of the teaching, for I know you know it. Your refusal is a rejection of the truth because you are struggling to preserve your belief that Jesus only saves those who are elect before the foundation of the world. You have tried every way possible to hold onto the unbiblical doctrine of unconditional election. This is just another weak and futile attempt at that prideful effort. This is not a judgmental statement because I know you and have studied with you for 20 years. God is calling you to repent, do not resist the words of the Spirit of truth.
(2s) Is it more important to have truth or to hold on to that which we preceive is truth (as to protect one's belief) instead of the study of the whole word of God to determine what is
truth, after all, was this not the cry of Christ's day, Who may know the truth?
RE(2s)Raby: John 8:30-32 "As he spake these words, many believed on him. Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."
Disciples of Jesus know the truth. They continue in his word and are indeed free. If you would be free you will follow the apostles’ doctrine as it is the doctrine of Christ. 2 John 1:9; Acts 2:42. Give up a doctrine that says Jesus does not love all sinners enough to give them the spirit so they can hear. Whosever believeth shall not perish....God so loved the world.... Only the blindness of sin would keep you from accepting this. There is no mercy in unconditional election.
(3s) Ezekiel 36:20-27 Here God is specific as to where the Holy Spirit should be assigned or to dwell - inside the person - not just the apostles but the whole house of Israel and note it is not conditional as to whether they themselves will seek to do good,
repent from their wickedness, nor to obey the words of God, but it is God choosing to cleanse them as he sprinkles clean water upon them and changes their hearts and causes them to do his judgements by a changed heart and life, not for them does he do this but for his holy name's sake.
RE(3s) Raby: It is rather curious that you refer to Ezekiel. I know you do not believe this has yet occurred, yet you apply it to the apostles. Do you think this has been done already? For if according to your doctrine this is a future event from 2007. Which way do you want it? Either way this reference is to restoration of Israel from captivity and not reference to salvation in Christ.
(4s) The Bible is rather clear on the matter of baptisim which is denoted in John.
John 4:1-2 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus
made and baptized more disciples than John, (Though Jesus himself baptized not,
but his disciples,)
Now you would think that if Christ is not a respector of persons and if he wants
and desires that all should come to the knowledge of the truth He would have at
least one place to where He actually baptized at least one individual by immersion in water (which I am not against just not for salvation purposes).
RE(4s) Raby: It is not for you or me to decide what the sovereign LORD chose to give for command and example. He commanded baptism in water for remission of sins and those who believe and are baptized will be saved. Why will you continue to resist Him?
To say Jesus does not give example of actually, personally, physically immersing someone in water and therefore we have no obligation to obey his commands of baptism is beyond nonsensical. It indicates the fact that you have no ground of truth to stand upon. It indicates that you refuse to read the plain word of God, for in it is stated, “…Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John..” If you believe Jesus why then do you refuse to obey him?
You said, “…immersion in water (which I am not against just not for salvation purposes).” Perhaps it would help if you told us what you believe is the purpose of the command to be baptized. Please tell us. Your claim of illumination should be of assistance here, but be careful and do not contradict. I would not want you to stand before God on judgment day denying baptism because Jesus did not give you a personal example.
(5s) The only place I have found where Christ baptizes any one is in the passage in John.
John 20:20-23 And when he had so said, he showed unto them his hands and his
side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord. Then said Jesus to
them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye
the Holy Ghost: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
Now it is true we cannot forgive sins but we may pray for those whom do wish us
to do so as they would turn to Christ, but we do have these verses which inform
us of the operation of the Holy Spirit which when the Bible is speaking of the
Holy Spirit the "s" is captialized.
RE(5s) Raby: Whatever happened in John 20 when Jesus breathed on them, it was not the promised power from on high. They were told to return to Jerusalem and wait for that and it came on Pentecost. Acts 1 and 2. You misread because you will not believe. Turn today away from error before you are given a strong delusion having believed a lie. I pray that has not already happened. II Thes 2:10-12.
(6s)Romans 8:13-17; 23-28 Do these verses attain to the church or only to the apostles, is the Holy Spirit mentioned here really the third person of the GodHead or do we now make Him symbolic and call this the Bible when the Spirit is mentioned?
RE(6s) Raby: What do you mean? "...attain to the church or only to the apostles...? I have never heard anyone say the Holy Spirit does not dwell in faithful disciples. Romans 8 stands against you. Verse 13 clearly shows that a person who is saved can walk after the flesh. He is the one who minds the things of the flesh and does not mortify the deeds of the flesh. He is the one who will die. This is the reason Paul is warning. You must learn the meaning of "..if.." This little word continues to escape you. Paul says you can mortify the deed of the flesh by the Holy Spirit. He says you must do it or die.
It would also help to learn the different measures of the Spirit given by God:
1. To Jesus, without measure. John 3:34 Deity
2. To the apostles to confirm their preaching. Baptism with Holy Spirit Mk 16:20, Heb 2:3,4; I Pet 1:12.
3. To ministers that the apostle chose by laying on hands. Spiritual Gifts I Cor 12:28.
4. To all disciples as earnest of our inheritance. Indwelling Eph 1:13-14.
With regard to interpretation either literal or figuratively (symbolically) it is possible to err by misreading the text. Both reading literal language as figurative and symbolic language as literal will give you the wrong information. You claim illumination is necessary and you claim to possess illumination. However you often do not even recognize simple words like "if" or "us" or "we" and make application that are in direct opposition to the Lord's message. If you were indeed led by the Holy Spirit you would not err. The test is stated in II John 1:9; I John 4:1ff.
It would be good for us to continue the discussion and learn more of what is revealed in truth. I hope God will grant us the opportunity, but I adjure you to seriously consider your errors and mishandling of the word.
Thank You, Donald Raby 20070708
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